Well, I finished my test period on the Brooks B-17 Imperial, or "Carved" saddle. I'd put several thousand miles on the saddle in that time, but when the year-long test period was over, I was actually glad to swap the saddle on my commuting mule. I took it off and replaced it with the Brooks C-17 I had been using previously, and it was a relief.
The "carved" B-17 Imperial is supposed to relieve perineal pressure, but I hate to admit that I never got used to it. If anything, I felt that the big hole in the top led to more pressure - not less - and chafing. Even with padded riding shorts, I could feel the edges of the hole "digging in." I had hoped that it might get better as the saddle got more broken-in, but the sensation never really went away.
If someone is still tempted to try the Imperial, I'd recommend taking out the laces right from the start. Unlike regular versions of the B-17, the lower skirts on the Imperial are laced together from the factory, which is a trick people will use to firm up the top of an old saddle that has gotten too soft and saggy. But on a new saddle, it seemed to be overkill. I used mine as it was shipped, with the laces, for at least 6 months, and it made the top feel way too solid, as if it would never break-in. I eventually removed the laces, which allowed the top to flex more. It helped, but I could still feel that damned hole.
In the end, I'm just going to say that the regular non-carved B-17 - and also the C-17 (which has a similar width to its all-leather cousin) - are pretty hard to beat. Even if someone has concerns about "perineal pressure" I think these saddles - if properly set up for height and angle, etc. - will provide a lot of comfort, making the huge hole in the top unnecessary.
i tried cutout saddles- albeit padded over a nylon structure -in the early 90's and share your observations. The edges of the cutouts dug in after an hour or two, and did nothing to relieve numbness in the personal bits. i happily traded them in for Brooks & Ideale traditional leather saddles.
ReplyDeleteI much prefer a rubber+textile saddle such as the Cambium to the plastic ones, but in the end even the Cambium suffers from the same problem, the material is not "alive" and won't change its shape...
ReplyDeleteSaddle conversations inevitably end up at "your experience may vary". I rode a rock-hard Brooks Team Select for decades, it never broke in - the leather was double thickness. As I matured I began to experience numbing where one would rather not. After years of trial and error, I found relief with a C17 Carved. Last year I traded the Team Select for two barely-used B17s and tried one. From the start it was the most comfortable saddle I ever rode. After 15 miles - numb. I had a fellow who specializes in such things add the Imperial-shape cutout and it's perfect, for me anyway. I am unaware of the cutouts in either saddle while I ride, and would buy another in a heartbeat. As a wise person once said: "Come to terms with your Ass, for it bears you."
ReplyDeleteFair point, Andy. A friend of mine always qualifies his opinion on such things with YMMV, or “your mileage may vary.”
DeleteI have never liked a saddle that doesn't have smooth top. I tried those early Avocet saddles with the "bumps," and a couple of saddles inspired by them. I've also tried cut-out saddles (or ones with a hole or gap in the middle) from Terry (which was made, I believe, by Selle Italia), another manufacturer and Brooks--the B17. Never again!
ReplyDeleteI've used plastic and foam saddles for pretty much all of my riding as an adult, which is ~16 years now. I've never had any pain "down there" even on 8-hour rides. I recently replaced one that had gotten horribly swaybacked after ~12 years with another plastic one from the local shop's used saddle box. If/when I need another one I'll look into the Brooks Cambium as a good vegan alternative to the legendary B17.
ReplyDeleteFortunately I've only ever been bothered by cheap saddles. I've been riding on a Brooks Cambium recently which seems fine, also a couple of older San Marco Rolls saddles, I have them mounted on different bikes. I used a Gyes (leather Brooks copy) on my first century 5 years ago, no problems and I still have that saddle which I may use again at some point. I came across someone online advocating for squirming around on the saddle a bit from time to time, something I've always done anyway, also stand on the pedals now and then just for the sake of getting your butt off it for a few seconds. Merckx was known for constantly fiddling with his saddle position, there's a brief scene in a film of him adjusting his saddle while speeding along mid-race (himself, not a mechanic leaning out of a team car).
ReplyDeleteI have a Brooks B-17 on my 1973 10-speed. I thought it was perfect until I put a Brooks Cambium on my 2019 single speed.
ReplyDeleteI much prefer the Cambium.
I tried a B-17 for a couple of years - never loved it. I traded it to a guy for a carved c-15 which I like much better. I may try a carved c17 to see if the additional width is more comfy.
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing your experience, I was wondering if the carved model actually relieved pressure in those areas. I used to ride a b-17 and then a flyer, and have more recently been riding a gel monstrosity that I'm hoping to replace with another brooks (again stuck between a b-17 and flyer). Unsure of the cambium, I'm pretty committed to the b series, but will look into them now!
ReplyDeleteI found the cambium to have a nice blend of firmness and compliance unlike the b series I replaced it with. I still remember the painful experience trying to pee after a long ride on my b-17.
DeleteFor me, the C17 is the ideal commuter saddle, at least where theft is not a significant concern. I did find it lacking for very long rides, having one actually wear a hole in my butt after 180 miles, but it's possible that a different combination of shorts and saddle might have given different results. Unlike Justine, I like the friction that the fabric surface provides, though on longer rides a smooth top does make it easier to shift position slightly. I fell in love with the Brooks Pro when I rode the "Pre-Stressed" one that came on the Schwinn Paramount I bought new in 1973 from the bike shop where I wrenched. I prefer them hard, but not brand new. I have many that are fully broken in, but I actually like one that only has a couple thousand miles on it better.
ReplyDeleteI classify saddles by the number of miles before I wish I was riding something else. There are few saddles, other than the old Cinelli Unicanitors, that don't even qualify as '40-milers'. Most fall in the 60 to 80 mile category. I can confidently head out on a 120-mile ride with a C17, and a San Marco Regal or Brooks Pro will take me to the point where other factors than saddle comfort take over. I know people who love the old Concor saddles of the 1980s, but I only keep them on bikes of the period that don't get ridden very far--I want to swap it out before I reach the end of the block. I don't even look at the current crop of tiny road saddles, and have not found any benefit from the more recent 'technical' saddles from Specialized at the like.
My wife hates the Brooks Pro with a passion. We've gone through a whole bunch of different makes and designs, hitting a little luck with the sprung B67 on the back of a tandem, but the one she consistently goes back to is the top Avocet W02 model, sadly long out of production. I can't for the life of me figure out why so many women over the years have said that it is their favorite saddle, yet no one currently makes one like it. She has a petite build, and has rejected almost every "women-specific" cut-out saddle she has tried, with chafing and pressure points being the chief complaints.