Wednesday, September 30, 2020

Retro Raleigh Replica Revisited

Earlier this month, the Raleigh Team Replica bikes that I talked about back in July started making their way to buyers. They are being produced in a limited run of 250 bikes - some sold as framesets, while others are complete bicycles with a mix of Campagnolo, Cinelli, and various retro-styled components. I don't know if many (or any?) of them ended up coming to the U.S., as they were never actually offered for sale here officially. (Keep in mind that Raleigh in the U.S. is NOT the same company as Raleigh in the U.K.). But now that the actual bikes are getting "out there" into the public, it seemed worthwhile to check back on them.

This was one of the promotional photos from Raleigh's website. The bike looks pretty good from "back here."

Just to remind readers, the framesets are being sold for £1500, while complete bikes are £2500. No prices were given in U.S. dollars (like I said, the bikes weren't actually offered here) but those prices would work out to about $2000 and $3200 respectively, assuming a U.S. buyer could get one shipped stateside. That didn't sound too out of line for a limited-edition frameset built from Reynolds' legendary 753 tubing. So, now that the bikes are getting into customer's hands and people are getting a closer look, what are they saying?

Sorry to say - but reactions seem to be mixed.

The folks at reviewed the bike, and overall their review seemed mostly positive. They called it "A safe and thoroughly enjoyable ‘Sunday best’ ride whether you remember the original or not." They liked the bike's iconic and retro styling, its great steel ride, and "surefooted" handling. Their negatives mostly seemed to center on the things most modern bike reviewers seem to focus on with any bike built with classic/vintage appeal: downtube shifters, toe-clip/strap pedals, skinny handlebars, etc. Other folks who have posted about the bike have also complemented the classic "steel bike ride" quality.

Harsher criticism of the project is coming from folks who are the most familiar with the original team bikes, which were built by Raleigh's Specialist Bicycle Development Unit (SBDU). One such expert on the SBDU bikes is Neil McGowran, who has recently taken delivery of one of the new framesets and has posted photos and his observations on his blog, As one might expect, any close comparison between the new, made-in-Taiwan replica and an original SBDU vintage bike is not going to go so well for the new bike.

Photos of Neil McGowran's frame. (from his blog, used with permission). 

Some critique has been leveled at the new bikes for things like decal placement and size (the new graphics, lettering, etc. are a bit smaller than the old). I suppose those are the kinds of things that might bother a person who is really familiar with the original bikes, and who hoped beyond hope that the new bikes would truly replicate the old. Speaking for myself, I think those are pretty minor concerns and I probably wouldn't make too big a deal about the decals being slightly "off" in comparison with the originals - and I'm guessing that a lot of the target buyers, many of whom may have only a passing acquaintance with the vintage versions probably wouldn't even notice the difference. As long as the bike basically "looks the part," they'd likely be satisfied. On the other hand, a lot of the marketing about the bikes prior to their release hyped the level of research that was done into the original bikes, and how much painstaking effort was put into getting the details right and making the new bikes "faithful" replicas. If a person took them at their word, then those little details might justifiably be an annoyance.

Decals and graphics aside, there was at least one area where I know I would be disappointed if I plunked down $2000 on a new bike frame -- and this would be true regardless of whether the bike was supposed to be a faithful replica of an iconic racer or not. McGowran shared some close-up photos of the area around the rear dropouts, and the joinery of the seat- and chain-stays to the dropouts. I was shocked, to say the least.

Featureless frame ends and lumpy joinery mar the new bike. The front fork ends are similarly disappointing. (used with permission from McGowran's blog)

The rear frame ends are apparently laser-cut from thick steel plate. They look like chunky featureless slabs. The Cyclingnews review chalks that up to "modern safety standards," which leaves me shaking my head in wonder. In what way is a chunky slab of a dropout safer than a proper forged steel one (which would be stronger, lighter, and better-looking)? Obviously the forged Campagnolo-brand dropouts of the vintage bikes are no longer made - but nearly identical versions (without the Campagnolo name) are still made and readily available, almost certainly from the same source that provided the new bike's lugs.

Besides the chunky dropouts in and of themselves, the way they are joined to the stays leaves so much to be desired, as well as a lot of questions. The lumpy, unfinished joints would not look out of place on a cheap steel bike selling for $500 (for the complete bike!) - but are a serious disappointment on a frame in this price range. My first thought was they look like they were welded, not brazed. McGowran says they were, indeed, welded - which surprised the hell out of me. Everything I've read and heard about Reynolds 753 tubing says that the only acceptable method for joining the tubes is low-temperature brazing, usually with silver instead of brass. Folks who know much more about framebuilding and metalworking than I ever will have said that welding with 753 tubing would either destroy it, or at the very least, eliminate its heat-treatment properties. Now I learn that Reynolds apparently says it can in fact be TIG welded. Call me puzzled. But also, even if they were indeed welded, could the welds not at least have been "cleaned up" to make them look smoother?

Another area that raises some questions is the weight of the frame. One of the features of a classic 753 frame - and what made them so sought-after - was the low weight, which was due to the extra-thin wall thickness of the tubes (said to be as thin as .3 mm in some versions!). Putting the new frame on the scale (56 cm frame with all fittings, etc. removed) showed a weight of 2027 grams, which is about 250 - 300 grams more than what one should expect from a vintage 753 frame in the same size, and making it closer in weight to a vintage frame built with venerable 531 tubing. What's going on here? If I had to guess, I'd say that while Reynolds may have produced a limited run of their heat-treated 753 tubing, they must not have drawn it to the ultra thin-walled dimensions that were used in the past. If true, I have no doubt that the decision was made in the interest of longevity, safety, and reducing future warranty claims. Once the tubes are built into a frame, it's nearly impossible to accurately measure the wall thickness, but the extra weight provides a strong clue. 

Will most of the people who buy the new Raleigh Team replica bikes notice or care about these things? I don't know. I assume that a lot of the potential buyers are looking for a nice steel bike with some vintage appeal and the right amount of "cred" but don't want to deal with whatever hassles they may perceive would come with finding an actual vintage bike. Maybe the target buyer is someone who wants a "new" bike, with "modern" components that looks and feels like a vintage one. If they've mostly cut their teeth riding aluminum and/or carbon fiber bikes, then little things like chunky dropouts with lumpy welds probably won't even catch their attention. It's hard to argue that the bike doesn't look good (at least from a few feet away) and that it will definitely stand apart in a sea of bloated popped-out-of-a-mold carbon fiber bikes. And there seems to be no disagreement that the bike does offer a nice classic steel ride, which is a very important consideration for any bike (that is, if you're not a snob - which I think I probably am). 

I mentioned at the end of my previous article on the Raleigh Team replicas that I would not be in the market for one. And now that the bikes are out there, I'm more convinced that people like me probably aren't the "target market." If I were really interested in a Raleigh Team replica, I would take my time and search the vintage market to find one of the original SBDU bikes. And if I were looking for a new bike with vintage-style construction and appeal, I'd get something built by a custom builder here in the States, or (as I've done several times over the years) get it built by a "keeper of the flame" builder in the U.K., like Mercian. Heck, Mercian might even have a couple sets of the original 753 tubing still on hand. If not, one can get similar characteristics from 725 (heat treated chrome moly) and 853 (heat treated and air-hardening alloy) - both of which are readily available.

Wrapping it up - I still think it's pretty cool that Raleigh saw fit to make a bike like this -- a bike that should be a retrogrouch's dream. More power to them. But it's important to remember that while the Team replica attempts to imitate the look/style of a vintage bike - it is NOT a vintage bike. Rather, like most other bikes built today, it is a modern bike built to a "price point" in one of the same Taiwanese factories that cranks out mass-produced bikes by the the millions. 


  1. That replica is an abomination. Seems that the greater effort was put into the marketing rather than actually producing anything remotely resembling a faithful reproduction of a true classic frameset. The end result, with its poor fit and finish, would be an embarrassment on a $500 bike. The final insult? Those blocky fork ends with "Lawyers' Lips!"

  2. The rear dropouts? I'd expect something like these on a Huffy. I'm serious. I think you were quite generous to compare the joinery to a $500 bike...probably closer to $100.

    "Replicas" like this amplify my determination to preserve and enjoy my 1990 and my wife's 1987 hand-built lugged frames, which are highly functional works of art.

  3. What a disappointment, a limited release of a legendary bike repro marred by dubious cost-saving measures and sloppy workmanship. I've been looking at the Bottecchia Leggendaria Classic frameset - it has its detractors as well and is more mass market oriented, but the workmanship is competent and, adding to the cachet, it's made where the marque originated. To each their own.

  4. Judging by the number of adverts that I'm receiving for this bike, I'm clearly in their target market. If the frame had been made by a proper UK-based builder I might well have bought one....and I'd have been prepared to pay considerably more than £2000. It's a missed opportunity, but all credit to them for trying I suppose.

    1. While I won't defend the use of those dropouts, I will gently remind folks that the highly desirable Campagnolo vertical dropouts that could be ordered on original SBDU bikes were stamped out of flat plate and combined with front dropouts that were made the same way. Not that I ever understood the logic for that. The track dropouts also were stamped. I made enough money just on right dropout replacements "back in the day" to pay for my first set of torches. Every one I replaced was broken in the same place, at the transition of the raised section to the smaller section that attached to the chainstay. A stamped dropout with integral hanger is not something that most would notice once the wheel is in place. That detail pales in comparison to that unacceptable welding, though.

      The company should have taken that time-honored approach of contracting the special job out to a small builder who has the expertise and would jump at a limited production job, especially if the schedule allowed it to be fit into the slow periods of the regular season. In the 1980s, Raleigh went to Mike Melton, Marinoni, and I think even Serotta to build special race bikes. There's a famous story about Marinoni not being able to get sufficient stocks of 531 for a set of Raleigh frames (for the '84 Olympics, as I recall) and instead building them of Columbus and sticking 531 decals on them. It is said that, in classic days, most bikes ridden by the top professional riders were brazed by a different builder than shouted out by the decals.

      When Raleigh first published this long-lasting version of their team graphics in the 1974 catalog, I was a wrench at a US Raleigh dealer. There was more focus on the not-yet-released Campy Super Record group, with its black, unobtanium chainrings, but I was appalled at the paint scheme. I had always liked the subdued look of the Raleigh Pros and Internationals and their classy, gold-script model names on the top tube were a special touch. To me, the new graphics made their top bike look like a circus wagon. A decade later, the Raleigh Team Pro looked tame compared to pink Cannondales and purple Lotuses, but at the time it seemed gaudy and it didn't help when Raleigh made a replica out of the entry-level Record, which was a quarter step above a tire store bike. I had a track model in the previous, red, white and blue team paint, which I have always vastly preferred. I rode that bike so much that the frame failed and Raleigh replaced it under warranty in 1977 with one in the new paint job. It took a bunch of years, and watching "the Team look" earn its place in racing history, but it eventually grew on me and these days when I take that track bike out, other cyclists get neck injuries when their heads snap to the side to see it.

  5. Wow,those dropouts are truly disgusting. I feel very lucky to own an original, even more so after seeing this.

  6. I, too, am disappointed to see those dropouts. Then again, I’m not surprised: The target market for such a bike is, I reckon, more image- than detail-oriented.

    Better, as Retrogrouch says, to order a frame from a current builder. A 725 or 853 frame from Mercian, for example, can be had for about the same price as that “Raleigh “ If you really want 753 and your builder of choice doesn’t have it, you may be able to find a set elsewhere and send it to your builder of choice.

  7. When you consider that so many made-in-low-wage country bikes bear the names of classic Italian makers like Cinelli and De Rosa, I guess it’s not surprising that a bike like this “Raleigh “ would be made. They are all cynical attempts at cashing in on nostalgia.